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Author Topic: Charts and Graphs thread  (Read 73101 times)
Johnny Roastbeef
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« Reply #180 on: February 08, 2012, 09:28 pm »

I don't even agree with the church on this.  I think they're taking a hardline stance for no reason.  Paying for their employees health care, which includes birth control is no worse than giving their employees a paycheck, which they can then spend on sinful things like drugs, hookers, or campaign funding for Democrats. 

The problem is that the other side is just as stupidly hardline.  Who the fuck cares?  You can trade a tiny concession to some whiny people, still provide their employees the coverage you're trying to provide, and get the much larger benefit of immediately covering 99% of the fucking workforce.  You can say you're standing up for a principle, but they're just standing up for one too (namely keeping government mandates out of their religion).  That principle may not be as valuable from a certain perspective as the principle of making sure that explicitly religiously affiliated employers can't even impose an inkling of religion on their employees, but it's clearly important to the other side.

As we discussed in the abortion thread regarding pro-lifers, sometimes by accepting a pragmatic view of events and making minor concessions to things that are important to other people, you can achieve a lot more on the larger principles that ultimately help everyone.
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fermun
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« Reply #181 on: February 08, 2012, 09:39 pm »

As a reminder, religious organizations are ALREADY subsidizing birth control to make it low-cost. They are currently fighting to not have to subsidize that little bit extra to make it free for the individual.

Then why exempt churches?
Because the religious charter schools, hospitals, and charities provide secular services and are therefore not primarily a religious institution and must follow all laws that apply to secular organizations.
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Jacob
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« Reply #182 on: February 09, 2012, 02:40 am »



from here: http://evogeneao.com/tree.html
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please be safe out there on the internet today
thermus aquaticus
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« Reply #183 on: February 09, 2012, 09:23 am »

That's hot how they handled the time dimension there. Here's one that tries to give an accurate picture of the relative number of species.



All the Eukaryotes* from Jacob's graph fit in the pink section on this one. The blue is Bacteria and the green is Archea.

*Cells with nuclei.
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Wooer et ass, 2013
Honest Abe
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« Reply #184 on: February 09, 2012, 01:30 pm »

racial bias in presidential pardons



more details here

also, i've been looking through that blog at it's pretty amazing.
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Honest Abe
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« Reply #185 on: February 10, 2012, 04:15 pm »

As a reminder, religious organizations are ALREADY subsidizing birth control to make it low-cost. They are currently fighting to not have to subsidize that little bit extra to make it free for the individual.

well they were placated by a silly accounting provision. whatever at least they shut up and at least there's still free birth control.

also, it was pretty funny to see the GOP fighting for catholicism
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fermun
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« Reply #186 on: February 10, 2012, 04:47 pm »

Yeah, I'm OK with the compromise results, assuming it's accepted.

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Johnny Roastbeef
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« Reply #187 on: February 11, 2012, 10:50 am »

Yeah, I'm OK with the compromise results, assuming it's accepted.

I'm glad they compromised and kept access and health care available for everyone.  It's hilarious to me though that the compromise is basically "you're not going to pay for birth control, but you are going to pay for general health care, and then they're going to give birth control for free."  It's a compromised based completely on semantics, but if it shut up the complainers then I guess it's good.
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fermun
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« Reply #188 on: February 11, 2012, 03:40 pm »

I don't think a compromise should have been offered. The Catholic Church-owned secular businesses have no right to impose Catholic doctrine on their employees, not even their Catholic employees. That is not religious liberty.

Anyhow, the accommodation was endorsed by the Catholic Health Association, but the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops have rejected the compromise. If you consider the legalese semantics that were being made, it is not really any different than paying an employee money then that employee choosing to buy condoms or birth control pills. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops wants an exception made where not only churches but also secular organizations associated with the church and individuals who oppose pieces of health insurance coverage can all exempt themselves from any piece they want to and just cite religious reasons. A person could claim religious exemption for everything and not cover any health insurance under the provision the Catholic Bishops want.

This is getting a bit ridiculous. If the Catholic Church really wants to make a fight on whether secular businesses can impose their religious doctrine on the public, they will lose.
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Johnny Roastbeef
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« Reply #189 on: February 11, 2012, 04:25 pm »

I don't think a compromise should have been offered. The Catholic Church-owned secular businesses have no right to impose Catholic doctrine on their employees, not even their Catholic employees. That is not religious liberty.

This is just a colored use of language to paint the situation as closely as possible to your opinion.  Saying "you can do whatever you want, but don't expect us to pay for it" is not an imposition of beliefs.  You're acting like the employees are being locked up and prevented from getting access to birth control.  It would be like saying that Chick-Fil-A closing on Sundays is imposing their religious beliefs on their employees. 

Quote
The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops wants an exception made where not only churches but also secular organizations associated with the church and individuals who oppose pieces of health insurance coverage can all exempt themselves from any piece they want to and just cite religious reasons. A person could claim religious exemption for everything and not cover any health insurance under the provision the Catholic Bishops want.

But what do the Bishops expect then?  Should the government give them the right to force employees to sign a contract that they won't spend their paycheck on porn?  Or a computer that they will then use to look at free porn?  This is just ridiculously stupid, and they are acting more as an arm of the republican party than as religious leaders.  Providing health care to people is one of the corporal works of mercy.  Here you have an opportunity to do that for all Americans and you're quibbling over minutae.
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fermun
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« Reply #190 on: February 11, 2012, 06:55 pm »

I don't think a compromise should have been offered. The Catholic Church-owned secular businesses have no right to impose Catholic doctrine on their employees, not even their Catholic employees. That is not religious liberty.

This is just a colored use of language to paint the situation as closely as possible to your opinion.  Saying "you can do whatever you want, but don't expect us to pay for it" is not an imposition of beliefs.  You're acting like the employees are being locked up and prevented from getting access to birth control.  It would be like saying that Chick-Fil-A closing on Sundays is imposing their religious beliefs on their employees. 
Wanting an exemption for a law is not exactly the same as not being open on Sundays. The employer is not gifting health insurance to the employee, the employee EARNS that health insurance and they can choose how to use it. The employer is only managing that part of the compensation for their employee and they have no right to determine how the employee chooses to use it.

There are two IRS rules that HHS is using to decide who gets an exemption on this law and they are
1) Whether or not the primary purpose of an organization is ministerial.
2) Whether or not religion is used as a screening method for employment and services rendered.

The charities, hospitals, and schools fail the first one. The charities, hospitals, and schools fail the second one. They are not religious institutions even though they are associated with religious institutions. They are secular organizations associated with religious institutions.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was officially racist in its policies until 1978, it operated hospitals until 1974. Should it have had a religious exemption to a law like the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Of course not. The Catholic Church's secular organizations should not have an official exemption to discriminate against women.
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Johnny Roastbeef
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« Reply #191 on: February 12, 2012, 07:37 am »

Wanting an exemption for a law is not exactly the same as not being open on Sundays. The employer is not gifting health insurance to the employee, the employee EARNS that health insurance and they can choose how to use it. The employer is only managing that part of the compensation for their employee and they have no right to determine how the employee chooses to use it.

Time off and vacation days are part of compensation too.  Maybe it's difficult to connect the dots with Chick-Fil-a because their employees mostly evoke imagery of part-time, high school kids, for whom those benefits don't usually exist in the traditional context. So clarify.  Imagine a Jewish gentleman who owns a factory.  One of the benefits his employees earn by working for him is periodic fixed holidays throughout the year.  This particular Jewish gentleman chooses to place those holidays on Rosh Hashanah and Passover, rather than Christmas and Thanksgiving.  Few would characterize that choice as "imposing Judaism on the workers."

The analogy clearly ends at the characterization. What's happening in the real case is that we're trying to define a new right of access to health care including that for women's reproductive care.  I don't object to that in any way.  All I object to is the use of language to describe the opposition that implies my side of the argument is the morally superior one. 
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BSam
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« Reply #192 on: February 12, 2012, 10:31 am »

Guys, those posts include neither charts nor graphs.

Stop being terrible.
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Honest Abe
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« Reply #193 on: February 13, 2012, 01:57 pm »

just in time for valentimes day

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drunkpiano
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« Reply #194 on: February 13, 2012, 05:12 pm »

Here is an interactive chart detailing the surging of Santorum from the back right up into everyone's face (SFW).
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Johnny Roastbeef
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« Reply #195 on: February 13, 2012, 06:51 pm »

just in time for valentimes day
The Chart

The NYT had an interesting article the other day regarding the changing importance of Education, Intelligence as a desirable partner trait for men.  Specifically that female academics in the past had difficulty finding spouses, and were encouraged to act stupid so men wouldn't be threatened.  The gist though is that the bias against educated women is largely disappearing.
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Honest Abe
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« Reply #196 on: February 15, 2012, 09:13 am »

scorecard for states' science education standards

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boron
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« Reply #197 on: February 15, 2012, 03:59 pm »

woo go CA
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Lukeington
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« Reply #198 on: February 15, 2012, 04:10 pm »

Yeah! Boron's Right! Go Canada!
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DoctorShenanigans
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« Reply #199 on: February 15, 2012, 04:21 pm »

Hey Abe, where's that chart from?
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