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April 24, 2017, 07:45 pm

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Author Topic: using gender/orientation/other group specific insults  (Read 28875 times)
Honest Abe
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« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2010, 09:13 am »

that is true. i did not start this thread to be the word police and censor your use of certain words. the point of this thread is to explain that it is gross to justify the use of horrible language like it is a detriment to society if you are told your use of certain language is horrible. sorry, justifying it by throwing around the word "context" doesn't cut it. it is bigoted language and there's really not much more to it. no one will care if you stop saying horrible words.

there's a local restaurant that has changed hands many times and been many different types of places, but one constant that has stayed with it since the 50s is a framed sign behind the bar that says "if you do not use profanity you will not offend anyone"

you still have the free will to use the language you want, you will not be "censored" for saying it, but don't be surprised when you are looked at like you have pile of crap on your head.
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Ferik
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« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2010, 07:19 am »

Quote from: Honest Abe link=topic=617.msg14999#msg14999
i <3 sluts

What's the context on that one?
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Honest Abe
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« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2010, 07:41 am »

it's almost like you didn't read what i said, and instead of having to agree with me, you decide it's time to go on a hypocrite hunt. i haven't defended my sig, so i'm not sure what you think you're doing. i'm sorry you feel you're being attacked because you can't understand words.
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Joyce
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« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2010, 02:19 pm »

Quote from: Honest Abe link=topic=617.msg14999#msg14999
i <3 sluts

What's the context on that one?

you still have the free will to use the language you want, you will not be "censored" for saying it, but don't be surprised when you are looked at like you have pile of crap on your head.

Pretty sure Ferik was just looking at you like you've a pile of crap on your head.
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Danny G
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« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2010, 03:25 pm »

I was completely on board with this whole idea... until just now.  I think using several of the words mentioned in this thread are probably not a good idea, and I like that some people are working on not using it as regular language.  This thread actually made me think about how I talk, and how often I use inappropriate words.

However, are some of you seriously suggesting that nobody uses any insult at all ever? 

"Don't say slut, because that could mean..."

Lastly, Joyce... just keep quiet.  Are you trying to come to the rescue or something?  I'm pretty sure Abe considered that, judging by his response.
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Honest Abe
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« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2010, 03:41 pm »

Pretty sure Ferik was just looking at you like you've a pile of crap on your head.

pretty sure you didn't read my post

thanks all the same for your wonderful contribution to my thread!
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Honest Abe
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« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2010, 03:43 pm »

However, are some of you seriously suggesting that nobody uses any insult at all ever? 

i know i and most of the others who understand what i am saying are certainly not saying that at all.
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Danny G
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« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2010, 03:49 pm »

I completely understand what you are saying, and agree completely.  The problem is people like Ferik, like you said, trying to find where someone is being a hypocrite.  What he is trying to say is hardly the same thing at all.
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Honest Abe
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« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2010, 03:54 pm »

oh i haven't read any of his posts
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Mile Star
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« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2010, 04:14 pm »

I never felt comfortable using words that present people and archetypes that exist in an insulting manner (homosexuals, women, people with disabilities) because you'll always have third party people who will be offended with your careless use of words, so I usually sticked with words people don't identify themselves with like dickhead or asshole (although it is kinda childish, so avoid that too now).

When you actually think about it, adults don't really even need insults. They can use descriptions that can be used as criticism, such as telling someone he is acting like a child, he's being ignorant, etc whilst using an insult really accomplishes nothing.

Now, you can tell me I'm wrong, and most probably I am, because I'm slowly getting into the adult world, I'm only 16 yet and I have a lot to learn, but this is me putting my 2 cents in.
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Ferik
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« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2010, 04:29 pm »

it's almost like you didn't read what i said, and instead of having to agree with me, you decide it's time to go on a hypocrite hunt. i haven't defended my sig, so i'm not sure what you think you're doing. i'm sorry you feel you're being attacked because you can't understand words.

I think that you might have read a lot more venom into my last post than was actually there.  Sorry if it came off as snarky.  I also don't think I was being attacked by anyone in this thread.  It's been a totally civil, and interesting discussion.

You dirty, dirty hypocrite.
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HyperGlavin
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« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2010, 01:47 am »

Ferik, you seem to believe that by not advocating the use of certain words, I am condemning them. This couldn't be further from the truth. I'm not saying that you can't ever use terms like 'bitch', 'retard' and 'faggot'. I am saying that if you do use them, there's a very good chance that you'll offend a lot more people than you originally intended, and you'll encourage bigotry. The mature response to this is to learn from it, apologise, and move on.

It should also be noted that, should you be called on it, any attempt to justify your behaviour, either by back-pedalling or by accusing others is not going to make you look like the bigger man in any situation.

In other words, grow up.
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« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2010, 11:27 pm »

To throw my own spec into the pot, I think it's fine to use such swears and bandy about offensive words to people you know well and in the context of a private/interpersonal environment. At the end of the day, the contextual nature of language turns something offensive into something playful and harmless - it's when the context changes and puts you at risk of seeming like an offensive asshole that you should be careful about what you say, if the desired effect is to not look like the aforementioned asshole.
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Kybard
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« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2010, 01:21 am »

I'm not going to claim that I don't use significantly more offensive words in private/friendly conversation than otherwise, but I'm still not sure I wouldn't challenge the idea that those words are any less offensive in that context.

I go back to my previous question: if "fag" and "stupid" mean the same thing in your group of friends, why would you ever say "fag" instead of "stupid"? to suggest that the former is an intensifier of some sort -- that it does something different from merely "stupid" or "lame" -- suggests that it maintains some power of its meaning even when it's not being used explicitly to hurt someone.

again, I'm not saying that some words can't be used or even that you can't/shouldn't say things in a friendly group where no one will get offended. I'm just curious about how, where and why people tend to draw those lines.
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« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2010, 02:10 am »

If you're using them in a private atmosphere with friends, it becomes a bit of a "if a tree falls in the woods" deal, I think. I mean, to you and your mates, prolific use of fag and gay is fine and does not really insinuate a bad feeling towards homosexuals - however, if one was to overhear your usage of it and took it out of context, it might be misunderstood as something.

Usage of the word in private for joke/personal insult purposes may, in fact, maintain some of its meaning as you claim - but as long as that meaning doesn't engender feelings of hostility or encourage a derogatory attitude towards homosexuals/africans/your group of choice, then I think it's fine to use the word. Personally, I think the implicit meaning (if any) of the group specific insults in a friend-to-friend context is so little so as to be nil.
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Honest Abe
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« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2010, 11:18 am »

If you're using them in a private atmosphere with friends, it becomes a bit of a "if a tree falls in the woods" deal, I think. I mean, to you and your mates, prolific use of fag and gay is fine and does not really insinuate a bad feeling towards homosexuals - however, if one was to overhear your usage of it and took it out of context, it might be misunderstood as something.

it's ok not to be horrible even when they can't hear you
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Bettytron
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« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2010, 01:56 pm »

If you're using them in a private atmosphere with friends, it becomes a bit of a "if a tree falls in the woods" deal, I think. I mean, to you and your mates, prolific use of fag and gay is fine and does not really insinuate a bad feeling towards homosexuals - however, if one was to overhear your usage of it and took it out of context, it might be misunderstood as something.

Usage of the word in private for joke/personal insult purposes may, in fact, maintain some of its meaning as you claim - but as long as that meaning doesn't engender feelings of hostility or encourage a derogatory attitude towards homosexuals/africans/your group of choice, then I think it's fine to use the word. Personally, I think the implicit meaning (if any) of the group specific insults in a friend-to-friend context is so little so as to be nil.

You really don't think that calling your friends fags has any effect on the way you perceive gay people, even slightly? Even subconsciously?  That, even though you're "joking", you're still all complicit in understanding that being gay is a bad thing?
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VoodooTissue
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« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2010, 04:00 pm »

Yes, Abe, you're right - you don't, under any circumstances, have to use those words. But if you do and it's in a friendly manner, I don't see any reason why there would be cause for offense.

And look, I'm sure you could argue that calling my friends fags has changes my perception of gay people all you like (and in theory it makes sense), but I can't honestly tell you that it has. I've never treated a gay man or woman differently to anyone else in their capacity as my friends or acquaintances. I will concede that there are guys and girls using it in an offensive capacity all the time and that does in fact reflect their view on homosexuals, but as long as you're not a huge bag of dicks then I can't see a reason why giving alternate meaning to a word and using it in a friendly environment would be a bad thing.

Yes, you can use other words to express yourself just as easily. I totally get that. But there's no reason you can't use them with a respectful bunch of mates in a private place.
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Bettytron
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« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2010, 04:02 pm »

There's no reason you can't, but you're still just defending your own right to be a dildo, so, whatevs.
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VoodooTissue
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« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2010, 04:28 pm »

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. Cheers.
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