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Author Topic: So Scotland may very well leave the UK  (Read 21304 times)
Chez San
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« on: September 07, 2014, 05:58 am »

The results of a poll released this morning show the pro-independence camp ahead by 1%. It's a single poll commissioned by the Sunday Times, with a 2% margin of error and a statistical outlier, but news enough to, if today's front pages are anything to go by, terrify the living shit out of the rest of Britain.



More here: http://wingsoverscotland.com/all-over-the-place/

In fact, the reaction from my English friends (I don't have any Welsh friends) has been one of complete shock, almost as if the last three years of debating and campaigning and the gradual political rousing of the entire country had gone completely unreported by the media.

Has there been much of this reported outside of the UK? I know it's a pretty big deal in Spain but aside from a couple of podcasts stateside I've seen little evidence of this thing having been covered properly by the mainstream media.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 03:48 pm by Chez San » Logged
HyperGlavin
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2014, 06:36 am »

In Australia, the story has received the usual attention given to foreign news that we can't somehow claim as our own special agenda. The national public broadcaster might give it a few minutes of cursory analysis every now and then, and the commercial outlets pretty much ignore it in favour of something more bloody or celebrity-focused. But that all goes out the window the moment Tony "I'm your dad as long as you're living under my roof" Abbott says some inane garbage about the whole thing and everyone loses their minds for a day or two.
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HyperGlavin
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2014, 06:51 am »

Oh btw I hope you guys get freedom or whatever, like in Braveheart, yeah?
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Chez San
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2014, 07:09 am »

It's really the only way we could finally get Gale and Tim strip-searched.
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Johnny Roastbeef
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« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2014, 07:33 am »

Can you maybe help us figure out how to convince our deadweight that they want independence?
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Chez San
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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2014, 07:51 am »

Well, if you're going to go the same way we've gone, you'll need to start with a spectacularly inept Unionist campaign that manages to alienate everyone who isn't a 50+ upper-middle-class white homeowning racist.

Then you'll need an entrenched right-wing media to angrily insult and demean them in the same way Fox News does to black people:

http://wingsoverscotland.com/kicking-the-dog-until-it-bites/

And having the BNP, the Orange Order, UKIP and the rest of the xenophobic far-right all put aside their differences to demand they stay in the union will help enormously.

And having this fellow on the opposition always helps:



So essentially you're going to have to do it backwards
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 08:05 am by Chez San » Logged
RummyLu
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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2014, 07:55 am »

It's really the only way we could finally get Gale and Tim strip-searched.

Oh come on, you know we just need to say the word, for Gale anyway.
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« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2014, 08:04 am »

Well, first you'll need to start with a spectacularly inept Unionist campaign that manages to alienate everyone who isn't a 50+ upper-middle-class white homeowning racist

As you say, the Better Together campaign has done its damnedest to push people towards a "yes" vote although even they are trying to distance themselves from Nigel Farage's proposed UKIP pro-union rally on the 12th.
My theory is that he wants the "yes" vote to win so he can sweep to power in an ever more right wing England and then take Scotland back by force, a la Putin.
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Chez San
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2014, 08:13 am »

What are the possibilities after a No vote? Ed Miliband as PM or a Tory/UKIP coalition? All of whom have pretty much burned their bridges in Scotland. We'd be actively electing leaders who have all treated us with open contempt and threatened to starve us out.
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RummyLu
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« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2014, 08:16 am »

Farage might have dreams but he'll never be a Putin.

Putin:


Farage:
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Ishliquor
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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2014, 08:20 am »

He's not the dictator we deserve, he's the one we'll get.
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Lukeington
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« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2014, 08:24 am »

We almost lost Quebec about twenty years ago to a referendum on sovereignty that gained a lot of steam about a week and a half before the actual vote, where it lost on the slimmest of margins. The Canadian government got super involved when they saw how close it could be. It's really interesting comparing the two, and following this with Scotland, though I don't really have an opinion or stake in it. I guess I have a scottish last name.
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RummyLu
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« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2014, 08:25 am »

Mongolord is Scottish?
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Chez San
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« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2014, 08:33 am »

Whatever the result, I don't think this genie is going back in the bottle any time soon. There were queues of middle-aged people waiting in line to register to vote last week, 50-year-olds who had never voted for anything before. Something had finally set a fire under their arses. There's talk of an 80% turnout.

We're going to have a far more engaged and enlightened electorate from here on, which can only be good for everybody.
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Chez San
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« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2014, 08:40 am »

That said, it's possible they were motivated by this.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLAewTVmkAU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLAewTVmkAU</a>
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Mr Gale
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« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2014, 10:36 am »

While I still dont think its probable, I would like independence so I can have a dual citizenship to an EU country (if they get membership anyway) in case we ever leave in some fit of pandering right wing nonsense one day.

The downsides like how its a bad idea to be having a vote of independence without any sort of forcing of a plan or mandate from the independence side, the gross economic dangers for Scotland, the no doubt skyrocketing of shortbread prices well... I dont care about any of that. Fuck Scotland.

I do care it will just be another left wing region of the UK leaving to bolster tory potential of future majority governments for the rest of us (till that promised UKIP split kicks in one day, hopefully).

I do however propose we change the name of the country if they leave to "England and friends".
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Chez San
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« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2014, 10:47 am »


Looks who's popped up at the last minute to state the bleeding obvious



It's amusing to see him accuse the BBC of bias, less amusing that he's right.
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Chez San
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« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2014, 11:05 am »

While I still dont think its probable, I would like independence so I can have a dual citizenship to an EU country (if they get membership anyway)
We're all EU citizens right now, it'll be kind of awkward for the EU to kick us all out then ask us to reapply. We'll see, I suppose.
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in case we ever leave in some fit of pandering right wing nonsense one day.
My money's on 2017
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The downsides like how its a bad idea to be having a vote of independence without any sort of forcing of a plan or mandate from the independence side,
We'll have 18 months to sort that out, starting from whenever the dust settles from whatever's left of ScotLab leaping onto the SNP raft
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the gross economic dangers for Scotland,
Largely debunked, I'm sure we'll be fine
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the no doubt skyrocketing of shortbread prices well... I dont care about any of that. Fuck Scotland.
I do care it will just be another left wing region of the UK leaving to bolster tory potential of future majority governments for the rest of us (till that promised UKIP split kicks in one day, hopefully).
Historically, removing the Scottish vote would have made very little difference to all the UK governments since 1945. Where Labour won they would have won anyway.
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I do however propose we change the name of the country if they leave to "England and friends".
England and chums
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Mr Gale
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« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2014, 11:14 am »

18 months to sort out "what you voted for exactly" is my problem, failing to provide some sort of definitive mandate is dodgy as hell. Largely debunked economic dangers is not a statement that can be true as obviously we are dealing with a lot of predictive elements when we still dont know what the plans for independence are economically or what the split of debt/resources would be, its a long term problem, I hope England would be savvy enough to realise while a lot of concessions economically to a new independent Scotland wont exactly be "fair" but will be in our long term interest not to have a bankrupt state by us ... ditto for doing what we can to get you into EU.

We dont really know if you can readily rejoin the EU as a straight transfer and under what conditions if so (like taking the Euro). I guess you could apply for some sort of exception for the Euro and be shoehorned in, it would seem logical but I assume states like Spain would fight the hell out of it for obvious reasons.

I would also like Scotland to take the Euro if it went independent, not for any economic reasons, it will just be so much easier to get rid of than Scottish notes.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 11:39 am by Mr Gale » Logged
Mr Gale
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« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2014, 11:15 am »

Also we should immediately make The Doctor switch to an English accent if it passes.
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