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Author Topic: Smart People Saying Smart Things  (Read 12484 times)
Katastrophikus
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« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2015, 12:15 am »

White Fragility
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Gudamor
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« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2015, 07:21 am »

On the rising cost of Health Care with a side chat about a game of beer and another side chat about communicating.
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its like they heard somebody over here was handing out asses and theyve known nothing but years of bitter ass famine
Katastrophikus
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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2015, 01:22 am »

Consent and Sexual Ethics
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Katastrophikus
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« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2015, 02:16 am »

The awful truth about climate change
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Zach
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« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2015, 10:04 am »

Yup, pretty much. Oil companies fully expect and plan to burn enough fossil fuels to pass 6 degrees warming by the end of the century, relying on yet-uninvented technology to undo the damage. Absolutely insane.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 10:15 am by Zach » Logged

jimbob
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« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2015, 12:06 pm »

Yup, pretty much. Oil companies fully expect and plan to burn enough fossil fuels to pass 6 degrees warming by the end of the century, relying on yet-uninvented technology to undo the damage. Absolutely insane. it being someone else's problem
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Katastrophikus
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« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2015, 03:48 am »

Donald Trump Is Not a Populist. He's the Voice of Aggrieved Privilege
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Johnny Roastbeef
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« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2015, 07:24 am »

The professionally offended and education
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HyperGlavin
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« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2015, 06:54 am »

Straw Freshmen: Why the War on Campus PC Culture is Bullshit

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Even taking these bits of evidence at their strongest and considering every source’s sources, so far the evidence from within The Atlantic’s reporting on PC culture within campuses yields data points from eight known American colleges and universities, one anonymous university, twelve professors, two researchers, three comedians, and one blog. No first hand interviews or viewpoints from actual students. There are over 4,700 degree-granting institutions, almost two million post-secondary professors, and 21 million enrolled students in the United States. These sources hardly form enough to decide to pursue a question, let alone form a broad cultural commentary, and further still show that these things actually impact campus life and policy in a meaningful way.
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« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2015, 11:11 am »

Just out of curiosity, how many data points demonstrating the value of trigger warnings does the blog post cite?
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Karlski
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« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2015, 05:35 pm »

is this going to be one of those things where someone saying "you know I really appreciate it when people let me know before broaching a topic that rakes over some bad ground for me" doesn't count as evidence because it's not been run through the peer review rubber stamp factory
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evilspud
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« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2015, 05:55 pm »

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/30/the-wonderful-thing-about-triggers/

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They say that “Confronting triggers, not avoiding them, is the best way to overcome PTSD”. They point out that “exposure therapy” is the best treatment for trauma survivors, including rape victims. And that this involves reliving the trauma and exposing yourself to traumatic stimuli, exactly what trigger warnings are intended to prevent. All this is true. But I feel like they are missing a very important point.

YOU DO NOT GIVE PSYCHOTHERAPY TO PEOPLE WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.
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HyperGlavin
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« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2015, 06:04 pm »

The blog post I linked is not about the value of trigger warnings, it's about how the current backlash to them is a massive dog whistle since there is no evidence that a trend of trigger warnings in academia actually exists. You might as well ask for data points examining the effectiveness of giving every student a hug.
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HyperGlavin
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« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2015, 06:33 pm »

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Johnny Roastbeef
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« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2015, 10:30 pm »

Have you ever participated in an argument in a non-conceited, non-condescending way?
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nak
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« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2015, 11:33 pm »

Dude, you didn't even respond to the article posted. You didn't even read the thing, and you reacted dismissively. That's pretty condescending on your part.
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HyperGlavin
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« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2015, 12:05 am »

Guys I think JRB may just be professionally offended.
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Johnny Roastbeef
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« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2015, 05:48 am »

The article posted contradicts its own premise. When you blog for an audience that already agrees with you, it happens. The blog post literally starts with "there's no evidence that anyone thinks college classes should have trigger warnings" and pivots to "we think college classes should have trigger warnings and here's why." Under normal circumstances, i would say pointing out that  you can't bounce those two theses off each other without creating a contradiction wouldn't catch much heat, but I guess you guys showed me.
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HyperGlavin
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« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2015, 06:58 am »

Okay let's break this down. Here is what the post actually, literally starts off with:

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It’s the new evil gripping the millennials of this country, coddling all of our college students so they become unquestioning, reactive drones; social justice warriors who put their icky feelings above everything else, whine over perceived microaggressions, and shout down and sue everyone who disagrees with them. They label anything remotely offensive as trigger warnings to avoid ever having to be challenged and have paralyzed universities into compliance. These social justice warrior millennials, in particular the loud liberal contingents of feminists and racial minorities, are no longer being educated in the right way, which involves learning to synthesize and hold equal a broad range of views, including “traumatizing” and offensive words and ideas.

Except, that’s all bullshit.

There is a very distinct cadre of mostly white, mostly male elites who have advanced the anti-political correctness agenda so far that even President Barack Obama has recently chimed in, coming down in firm opposition to PC in a speech in Iowa. But his remarks, and the larger body of essays and articles lashing out against PC culture on campuses, clash deeply with one of the presidential personality traits that many applaud in Obama: they are simply not evidenced by a broad body of facts.

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure the author isn't stating that trigger warnings aren't being considered at all. Instead, the premise is that complaints of "PC culture" ruining academia are completely unfounded. After all, this is a response to the reporting of The Atlantic and it would be baffling to criticise something they never said.

So, taking that as the original premise of the piece, does it "pivot" away from that on a contradictory tangent? Let's see an excerpt from the author's (admittedly) personal aside that you're possibly referring to:

Quote
Take the “trigger warning” as an example. There are still no colleges or universities that mandate trigger warnings as a practice in any field of study. Most cases of them being used have been in teaching sensitive issues of rape, abuse, or assault to classes with young women. The overarching point in “Coddling,” that trigger warnings actually can’t improve mental health, misses the point of the reality of these women. A new study from the Association of American Universities finds that over a fifth of all college women are sexually assaulted at some time in their enrollment. Another 47% have experienced sexual harassment and another 12% have experienced intimate partner violence. This means that any given classroom with any significant amount of women could be composed of up to a third or more of women who are processing rapes, assaults, harassment, or violence. Given the absolutely horrendous state of affairs within colleges (and largely, the country) in handling rape cases and pursuing justice and health for these women, it is likely that most of these survivors have not received or are not receiving the proper therapy and healing in order to be able to process triggering images and words without suffering further damage.

In this case–in likely the most dangerous environment women will ever be subjected to in their lifetimes by the numbers–it is probably a first concern to provide them means of agency to dictate their boundaries and safety in all cases. Trans students and others within the LGBTQ spectrum face similar issues and others at even higher rates, including harassment, physical assault and humiliation, and often suicide. With the monumental failure of the university institution as a whole to fulfill its basic duty to keep these students safe, it smacks of double talk when some agents of those universities constantly bemoan a largely imagined culture of rampant trigger warnings. The two concepts are inextricable.

While the author clearly thinks trigger warnings have value in certain cases, this doesn't contradict the original premise that trigger warnings are far from being widespread or used inappropriately. In fact, the statistics given in the article on misogyny and racism within academia actually serve to disprove the Atlantic's assertion of "PC gone mad" by demonstrating that, in many people's experience, the direct opposite is true. It's a clever, well-rounded bit of reporting that highlights the sad irony of the situation.

But I guess you wouldn't catch that because the blog was only written for an audience that already agrees with it, huh.
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Johnny Roastbeef
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« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2015, 09:23 am »

There's a big difference between dismissing evidence out of hand and not finding any evidence. I completely understand the premise he's trying to argue, I just don't feel there's any point in arguing how many incidents there need to be too decide whether it's troubling. That's a matter of worldview.

Simply calling something a personal aside doesn't change what's being said. His original premise may be that they're not widespread, but there's no way to read those paragraphs sensibly without concluding that he feels that they should be present because it's not just PC gone mad. That's why your own response makes that same point.  If we're arguing that there's an appropriate use for them in an educational setting even in a limited manner, there's certainly room to discuss the philosophy of the institution and education, which was the basic gist of the Atlantic's criticism of the practice.

This is the basically the exact same argument about Parental Advisory labels on music, except instead of entertainment, it's education.
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Because freshness is expected of any hip-hop artist, I avoid using traditional techniques.
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