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Author Topic: The incident on the other forum - why are we here?  (Read 16193 times)
jamiec
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« on: March 25, 2010, 07:39 pm »


Apologies in advance for the long post.

Many of us "plebs" are wondering what happened on the other forum.

Like many others, I recently noticed the moderators leaving in droves.
At first I thought people were leaving simply to pursue other opportunities at dragonmtn.com.  Maybe just a simple change of scenery?

Then I remembered a recent thread about Hate-By-Numbers columnist Gladstone moving to another site.
There was a note explaining the move (a business decision) and thanking him for his contribution, and assuring us he would still be around for special guest columns.

So I thought; why is there not a similar thread for dragonmtn.com?  I understand a moderator is not the same as a columnist but (to me anyway) you are still valued contributors nonetheless.

But I thought it was suspicious that such a thread did not already exist.  Maybe the parting was on "not so friendly" terms?
With that in mind I created this thread over on the other forum, which some of you read but here is my opening post in case you missed it:

Quote
Changing of the guard - what happened?
on: March 24, 2010, 08:00 PM  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recently I noticed a couple of forum members promoted to Mod - congrats to those guys.

Then I noticed some Mods have been demoted ... "that's a bit strange" I thought.

So I check out the profile info for one of the old Mods - and was surprised to discover an "about me" message along the lines of;
"I'm too cool for school, but come join the party at my place".

So I check out the party, and it all seems strangely familiar.  It's like a glitch in the matrix.

So now I have two places to get my fix of animated gifs and "Evil Sloth's best picture on the web".

What happened guys?
Is this some falling out, or is this an amicable split?

Would a link to this new place be welcome in the Mirth Canal - or is this place never to be spoken of?

.. and then I was shut down very soon afterwards (thread was locked).

Quote
Re: Changing of the guard - what happened?
Reply #6 on: March 24, 2010, 08:32 PM  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was just a disagreement between some of us.

It's not like some horrible secret, it's just that there's no non-douchebag way to explain it without having the entire fucking argument all over again.

After all, if I summarize what happened, they'll jump in and scream that I didn't tell their side. Then they tell their side, and I say their side is wrong, and other bystanders, sniffing the sweet smell of Time-Killing Internet Drama will jump in and offer their opinion. Thousands of posts later, everyone will be angrier than when they started and a huge amount of time will have been wasted.

Also, there's the fact that I just barely remember what it was about.

As for the other forum, well, I post on four message boards myself and it used to be more (here, JREF, a Chicago Bears board, I lurk at TelevisionWithoutPity, I used to spend a ton of time at the Channel101.com boards but they're kind of dead now, and before that I was active on Jay Pinkerton's boards before he unplugged them...). I've drifted in and out of many of them and not once did I feel the need to tearfully announce my retirement like I was goddamned Brett Favre leaving the NFL.

If any of the people involved want to discuss it with me they can do it (and have done it) via private message, if anybody is curious they can PM one of them and ask about it. But we're not doing a thread about it. That's not conversation; since this is a public board, that's turns it into an open-air, broadcast event read by hundreds or thousands of people, and the whole thing quickly descends into grandstanding and dick-waving.

It's just the internet, people. Get a grip.

EDIT: Also, as I've already told some of you, anyone who has been un-moderatored but who wants to be a moderator again can just PM me and ask. It's seriously not a big deal.

Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 08:47 PM by David Wong


So that answered my question at least - things are not good.

My mind wandered to one of my favourite childhood films - "The Dark Crystal" by Jim Henson.
I felt like I was witness to the cracking of the crystal.
These once powerful beings split into two, the dark and twisted Skeksis left alone in the crumbling tower, and the wise and peaceful Mystics who trailed off to live in the mountains...

Now I will admit that I was interested about what happened.  The bouquet of that Time-Killing Internet Drama is just so tempting.
After I started that thread, I was PM'ed these links.
http://www.matthewnicol.com/adblocksummary.html
http://www.matthewnicol.com/furtherinsanity.html
If you are interested in what happened, they tell the story.

I remember that adblocker thread over on the other forum.  At the time I could understand Dave's point of view but I thought his response was harsh.
Until I read that thread I actually didn't know there was such a thing as an adblocker.
Here was a chance for a discussion, a chance to explain to the ignorant (like me) the reasons why adblockers shouldn't be used.
Or maybe a discussion about how ads could be served in a manner that is less intrusive, less likely to infect your PC with viruses and the like, and hence less likely to prompt people to use adblockers in the first place.  And maybe some statistics to illustrate how much revenue is stolen from a company when adblockers are used.
Instead the thread was abruptly locked.

Now I understand why Dave would be upset at the mention of adblockers.  This is his livelihood we are talking about.
What I don't understand is why we can't have a discussion about it.

I have read Dave mention a few times how the express purpose of the forums is to have discussions.

Now I don't know Dave, he doesn't know me.  We are not friends, we do not correspond.  I am a "customer".
However, right now my thoughts towards Dave are like watching a guy in a car accident.  I don't know the guy, but he is in trouble and I want to help him out.
People using adblockers will impact his livelihood, but losing all the talented people that make his forum what it is will also impact his livelihood.
You guys are the reason I visit that site.  I spend much more time reading the forums than the articles.  You guys are very talented and very funny and I want to thank you for your contribution over there.
I was hoping for the opportunity to tell Dave the same but my thread was locked!
How many other people spend more time reading the forums than the articles?  I'm sure I'm not the only one.
It will be interesting to see how this impacts his site stats over the next few Months.
(Please don't read that as me sucking up to anyone - that is me attempting to explain to Dave what I think has been lost from the other forum)

I don't want to re-open the adblocker/censorship discussion.  You guys have had that discussion.

What I would like to discuss is the possibility of a return to the other forum... Is that even possible?  Can things ever go back to the way they were?

If Dave were to come out and apologise and say "maybe I was a bit harsh", and "I do appreciate and value your contribution", and "you do not need to ask for your old privileges, please take them back with my apologies" ... would you consider going back?

Is there anything Dave can do to stem the flow?  How is Jen the gelfling going to heal the Dark Crystal?

I would also like to ask what are the rules for creating threads that already exist in the other forum?
Is that allowed?
Should we say that you can create the same thread but you must start it as a "new" thread (not a continuation of the previous discussion)?
Also that you cannot post material that has already been posted on the other forum?
Also can we quote the other forum?

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spaceboy
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2010, 07:49 pm »

Are you trying to mend a rift here? I don't know about the other guys, but this place isn't just a temporary crying place for me. I'm fucking done. This isn't about the ad-blocking issues. This is about a pattern of censorship. I'm happy here.
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ulyssesdraco
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2010, 07:54 pm »

This post made me really really hungry.
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drunkpiano
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2010, 07:54 pm »

The Dark Crystal was okay, I guess.

Is that what this thread was about?
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2010, 07:58 pm »

This post made me really really hungry.

Tough shit, I am adblock the hell out of these forums. I am given to understand that means your table is devoid of food.

Also I have never seen The Dark Crystal, so the opening post in this thread was just gibberish to me.
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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 07:59 pm »

I always preferred Labyrinth as a kid, because it had more of my RDI of David Bowie's crotch Jennifer Connelly running in a tight sweater.
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 08:00 pm »

This post made me really really hungry.

Tough shit, I am adblock the hell out of these forums. I am given to understand that means your table is devoid of food.

Also I have never seen The Dark Crystal, so the opening post in this thread was just gibberish to me.

Joke's on you though because ulyssesdraco doesn't have any food on his table because he is poor.
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jamiec
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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 08:01 pm »

Are you trying to mend a rift here? I don't know about the other guys, but this place isn't just a temporary crying place for me. I'm fucking done. This isn't about the ad-blocking issues. This is about a pattern of censorship. I'm happy here.

Not trying to mend the rift but asking if it can be mended.
You answered that one sure enough.

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drunkpiano
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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 08:04 pm »

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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 08:04 pm »

So do we dance the magic dance now?
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2010, 08:04 pm »

Wow, that dude sure makes a long fucking post for saying "whats the dealio".

To be clear, Wongs post is more than little off. Lots of the mods didnt leave, a fair chunk were demodded for questioning Wong and their posts deleted. Long before this we've had totally cool people demodded for "talking back" to him (or banned, or both) or other tenous reasons (offsite "drama".)

This is hardly the first time Wong has deleted posts, lied about their content, theres very few people Wong seems to like and he obviously.. you know, has issues, bless him. Censorship is a bit of a pretentious way to put it, but yeah if you post something on a subject wong is touchy about it will dissapear and he may post about its dissapearence with a lie about how you "were going insane" on the issue or something equally dismissive and untrue.

I dont know if he believes his own rather weird version of events or not. This was never about adblocker or anything like that (not that I can speak for the mods involved, just give my view seeing it go down) but Wong likes to be dismissive, "its just the internet" or "i dont remember what this is about". Its a weird thing to not remember, he must have personally deleted 20 posts saying "thats not what that dude said, i dont think its cool to delete peoples posts and imply they were being insane and a dick when they werent" and it didnt sink in, he really forgot that? No, he didnt, hes being glib to move it all on. And the offer of "hey PM me and we can forget all about this" makes sense to all the people who threw the towel in, what about all the people who spoke up saying "hey, that wasnt very cool dude" who were just demodded without discussion or consultation for disagreeing with something he did.

Wong seems to have a very singular view of the universe and he would never apologise or back down just because he is in the wrong, this latest incident just demonstrated what little respect he has for the people who moderate the forum for him. So why do it for him? Some people havent left the forum, some people havent even thrown in the modship (understandable, its kind of cool to have a secret area and be able to edit your posts) but very few people who know what went down didnt think or havent said (even privately) "huh, wong is a bit crazy sometimes, dude needs a break". Just Sloth really thinks it was all cool and normal behaviour.

My point is, Sloth is a dickhead.

I still like PWOT, I will probably still keep track of the Dr Who thread and the footie thread, I know far too many from the community and use it as my email inbox to talk to half of them so walking away totally would be a chore.... in a gay "just the internet" way its a touchstone for me, but Wong (and a few other issues) have made it a place I feel less and less comfortable posting in. Dude be crazy yo. His Iraq article was still hilarious though.
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2010, 08:05 pm »

And I have never seen Dark Crystal. I liked the dog knight thing in Labrynth.
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2010, 08:06 pm »

Long before this we've had totally cool people demodded for "talking back" to him

Yeah, and it also happened to Gale as well.
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« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2010, 08:07 pm »

Quote
However, right now my thoughts towards Dave are like watching a guy in a car accident.  I don't know the guy, but he is in trouble and I want to help him out.

The dude can find new mods, and has done so very quickly. It's not the end of the world for him. I don't know why you're feeling sorry for him.
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2010, 08:09 pm »

Long before this we've had totally cool people demodded for "talking back" to him

Yeah, and it also happened to Gale as well.

Twice demodded and once banned. Once for asking him not to PMS at me.
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oball
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« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2010, 08:09 pm »

My favourite was when you accused him of being "scared of women".

How many other people spend more time reading the forums than the articles?  I'm sure I'm not the only one.
It will be interesting to see how this impacts his site stats over the next few Months.

It won't touch his stats at all, you tard.  Millions more people visit the site for the articles than read the forums.  Most of them probably don't even know there are forums.
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« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2010, 08:10 pm »

Thank goodness for that.
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« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2010, 08:11 pm »

Long before this we've had totally cool people demodded for "talking back" to him

Yeah, and it also happened to Gale as well.

Don't you ever again infer that Gale is "totally cool."
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« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2010, 08:12 pm »

So. Hungry.
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« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2010, 08:13 pm »

Long before this we've had totally cool people demodded for "talking back" to him

Yeah, and it also happened to Gale as well.

Don't you ever again infer that Gale is "totally cool."

Um.  I wasn't.  That was the whole point of my post, in fact.
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