Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 16, 2017, 07:15 pm

Updated Topics | Recent Unread Topics
Home Help Search Login Register

+  Dragon Mountain
|-+  Forum
| |-+  Sanctum Sanctorum
| | |-+  Let's talk about Joe Paterno.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6 Print
Author Topic: Let's talk about Joe Paterno.  (Read 27515 times)
Nicol
Time Vampire
Admin



View Profile
« on: January 23, 2012, 02:17 am »

What is all of this news talk about?
Logged

i came up in this world so cold. that's why my heart's on froze
Technohawk
Spacesquatch
Mod



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2012, 03:43 am »

From bits of tv news and the internet from the past few months this is what I've learned.

Joe coached college football. Guy who worked for him(named Sandusky) raped boys.  Another guy saw the man raping a boy and didn't call the police, but told Joe. Joe didn't call the police, he told his college bosses instead. Nothing got done for a while(9 years).

News of the rapes got out, Sandusky was arrested, Joe got fired. Ashton Kutcher tweeted his outrage, then got divorced. Students protested and looked dumb.

Then Joe died of cancer yesterday.
Logged
locnar
Captain Obvious


My balls. Look.


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2012, 05:28 am »

Let us not forget that many Americans are quite willing to give 'ole Joe a pass on the whole "not stopping a pedophile" thing because he was really good at football.
Logged

Evidently no one likes a quitter
or an old punk's bitterness
So I'm waiting for a tap on the shoulder
Because we're all getting older, not better
And the laughs are no longer with us
DiegoInglewood
Sauce Castillo
Probably a postbot


#1 Internet Content Poster


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2012, 07:29 am »

Joe Paterno was human dogshit
Logged


Citizen Snips
♖♘♗♕♔♗♘♖ ♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙ ♟♟♟♟♟♟♟♟ ♜♞♝♛♚♝♞♜
Probably a postbot


Der Zorn Gottes


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2012, 07:37 am »

The thing you have to understand about Joe Paterno and college football was that he was a Living Legend. I use capital letters because he had been coaching Penn State since the 1960s, a decade considered by most to be one of the greatest of the sport. He was cut from the same cloth as coaches like Paul "Bear" Bryant at Alabama and Ara Parseghian at Notre Dame. He took Penn State, a team no one really took seriously and transformed them into a perrenial power. He is the winningest coach in college football.

So when people claim that his legend supercedes what he did to cover for Sandusky, I think they are more interested about what he means for the mythology of the sport, the Americana of it. Of course, it doesn't, because he willingly allowed a child rapist to retain his offices at their facilities.
Logged

HyperGlavin
bridge and tunnel dyke
Probably a postbot


I'm a cool guy irl


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2012, 07:44 am »

He was both a superstar coach and an unethical coward. Whatever people choose to remember him for is more an indicator of their own personal priorities than anything else.

Personally, I don't really care for American football.
Logged

Yes, come on, get a dog up you, you rapscallion.
shrek
Nevermind, Just Another Jerk



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2012, 08:02 am »

The American obsession with college-level sports is pretty weird and I don't get it.
Logged
locnar
Captain Obvious


My balls. Look.


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2012, 10:51 am »

I love both professional and college football.  Some of my fondest childhood memories are of playing the sport.

Joe Paterno was human dogshit

This.
Logged

Evidently no one likes a quitter
or an old punk's bitterness
So I'm waiting for a tap on the shoulder
Because we're all getting older, not better
And the laughs are no longer with us
Johnny Roastbeef
Novice LARPer



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2012, 09:40 pm »

For what it's worth, the people who idolize Joe Paterno don't do so only because he won football games.  He's a living legend of the university because he stood for a lot more off the field than on it.  People from within the Penn State community are reacting so vehemently to the criticism of him because the people doing the criticizing don't seem to have any comprehension of who Paterno is.  Read some of the interviews with his former players or people who worked with him in the community.

Paterno:
Donated a huge portion of his salary back to support the university
Lived modestly and was a man of upstanding family value in the community
Was very generous with his time in mentoring young people within and without the football program
Is cited by 6 decades of players as a major developmental influence in their lives on and off the field
Had a long history of emphasizing the education of his players despite a strong culture to the contrary in football

The number of instances in which Paterno went above and beyond the call of duty to help other people in the local community make the concept that he found out about child rape and deliberately covered it up completely out of character.  There are many occasions, not dealing with exactly the same circumstances, where history demonstrated how he handled difficult situations with complete disregard of his own personal gain and nothing but trying to do the right thing.  On a global level, it's like leveling the same accusations against Nelson Mandela.

Despite all the questions that are still swirling around the situation, it's very clear at this point that this was not handled correctly by the university on several levels, and in time the whole story will come out.  But characterizing the guy on the day after his death as "human dogshit" when you obviously know nothing about the situation or the people involved is so ridiculous that I'm almost embarrassed to be on the same message board.  If you take a little time to actually investigate the circumstances and the history of the situation, it's a lot more complicated than you're making it out to be, and the ignorance with which you're all willing to approach this is shameful.
Logged

Because freshness is expected of any hip-hop artist, I avoid using traditional techniques.
Kybard
society's stared-at man
Mod


HOW ARE YOU


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2012, 09:43 pm »

On a global level, it's like leveling the same accusations against Nelson Mandela.

holy shit, dude
Logged

but it's not so great when you consider that it's coming from an alive lady
Mr Gale
Unbannable
Admin


I am Poirot


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2012, 09:46 pm »

That is possibly the most JRB post of all time.
Logged
drunkpiano
Je m'appelle
Technocratic Libertarian


Hurry up, Tommy, before zee Germans get here.


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2012, 09:48 pm »

You forgot one, dude.

Paterno:
Donated a huge portion of his salary back to support the university
Lived modestly and was a man of upstanding family value in the community
Was very generous with his time in mentoring young people within and without the football program
Is cited by 6 decades of players as a major developmental influence in their lives on and off the field
Had a long history of emphasizing the education of his players despite a strong culture to the contrary in football
Did absolutely nothing more than what was legally required when a man was raping defenseless little children. Simply passed the buck and never alerted authorities, allowing it to continue for nearly ten years, ruining an undetermined number of children's senses of trust and security and destroying lives.

But he sure did help that college or whatever.

Logged

Johnny Roastbeef
Novice LARPer



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2012, 09:50 pm »

If you can think of another irreproachable global figure that everyone on this forum could easily understand, I wouldn't dispute you on a better comparison.  The usual go-to of the pope is regrettably inappropriate for unfortunately similar reasons.

The message is that he's a very public figure, very visible to the local community and very active in exclusively positive ways to the local community.  To the degree that his record for most people within that community at least bears room for providing some benefit of doubt.
Logged

Because freshness is expected of any hip-hop artist, I avoid using traditional techniques.
Kybard
society's stared-at man
Mod


HOW ARE YOU


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2012, 09:51 pm »

okay now that I've recovered a bit: sports figures like that do charitable stuff all the time, especially ones who are given a lot of money to do their sports things by a single community, but it is not at all difficult to reconcile a guy taking the (noble, yes, but) easy step of giving money to charitable causes versus staying silent when he learned that a buddy of his was a horrible monster. he can be a man who gave back and stuff while also being an unethical coward at a moment when any nobility or integrity should have been his greatest asset.

The usual go-to of the pope is regrettably inappropriate for unfortunately similar reasons.

holy shit, dude, what is your brain even doing right now
Logged

but it's not so great when you consider that it's coming from an alive lady
Johnny Roastbeef
Novice LARPer



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2012, 09:51 pm »

So hypothetically, if I leveled an accusation against your father right now, that I once saw him acting inappropriately with a kid in a shower (which was basically the accusation made to Paterno, again if you bother to read the details), would you or would you not call the police?
Logged

Because freshness is expected of any hip-hop artist, I avoid using traditional techniques.
Johnny Roastbeef
Novice LARPer



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2012, 09:55 pm »

okay now that I've recovered a bit: sports figures like that do charitable stuff all the time, especially ones who are given a lot of money to do their sports things by a single community, but it is not at all difficult to reconcile a guy taking the (noble, yes, but) easy step of giving money to charitable causes versus staying silent when he learned that a buddy of his was a horrible monster. he can be a man who tried to give back but who was also an unethical coward at a moment when any nobility or integrity should have been his greatest asset.

The usual go-to of the pope is regrettably inappropriate for unfortunately similar reasons.

holy shit, dude, what is your brain even doing right now

But it's not completely clear that the buddy of his was a horrible monster.  The accusations were taken to the bosses.  The bosses conducted an investigation.  There was no evidence to go on.  While it hasn't reached trial yet, the rumblings are that they were actually able to contact the kid, who told them that nothing happened.  The investigation ended with them taking token action against the guy within the university.

What are you supposed to do at that point.  Be like, well the kid who he's accused of molesting told us that nothing happened but we don't believe the kid, he's an evil rapist and fuck him? 
Logged

Because freshness is expected of any hip-hop artist, I avoid using traditional techniques.
Mr Gale
Unbannable
Admin


I am Poirot


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2012, 09:56 pm »

The pope! Awesome.

If you were my employee, and you came to me to tell me you saw my best friend raping some kids, or my father, or some guy I just respected. I would be shocked, shocked you are telling me and not calling the police. Why are you telling me? Tell the police, like a god damn human being.
Logged
drunkpiano
Je m'appelle
Technocratic Libertarian


Hurry up, Tommy, before zee Germans get here.


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2012, 09:58 pm »

Man you know that even PATERNO HIMSELF said he should have done more, right?
Logged

Johnny Roastbeef
Novice LARPer



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2012, 10:05 pm »

The quote is "with the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."  The point is that it's easy for us now, when there's 10 people accusing this guy, to second guess what happened.  But it's a lot more difficult within a single situation to try and say exactly how it should have been handled by Paterno on spotty second hand information. 

Again, spending years being close to Penn State and reading tons of interviews from him, to me that quote doesn't read as a guy saying "I'm sorry I got caught covering this up" but rather, "I thought at the time what I did was right, and I did what needed to be done to resolve the situation, but it's clear with the full picture that I needed to act differently."

As has been said already, everybody is clearly going to look at this through their own lens with what they want to believe, but refusing the benefit of even a shred of doubt to Paterno is an injustice after the career of philanthropy he's had.
Logged

Because freshness is expected of any hip-hop artist, I avoid using traditional techniques.
TheDarkFlame
Uselessness Personified
Fart Wizard


Go on. Touch it. You know you want to.


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2012, 10:07 pm »

Look, he allowed a paedophile to continue working with children, as if nothing happened. That's a pretty fucking terrible thing to do. Doesn't matter who the fuck you are, or what you've done, that's a planet-sized blemish on your record of things you've achieved.

I don't know how people can defend this guy, I mean here in the UK our football is basically a religion but if someone did something like this the tabloids would have their fucking head on a spike, the repercussions would be enormous. You can talk about his charitable deeds, his morals, his attitude, whatever, but at the end of the day he still failed to defend a child who was being abused by someone under his command.

And you're comparing him to the pope, Nelson Mandela, calling him an "irreproachable public figure"? What the fuck? What the hell did he do that's so fucking holy? Coached sports? That's akin to fighting for equality, or being the leader of a major religion? Really?  If you think he's so morally strong, why did he put his own fucking shit above the innocence of a goddamn child who was being mistreated, rather than getting the police involved to at least clear the matter up if nothing was going on? Seriously, dude, seriously.
Logged

Rolling all the ones, forever.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6 Print 
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!