Dragon Mountain

Forum => Sanctum Sanctorum => Topic started by: Chez San on September 07, 2014, 05:58 am



Title: So Scotland may very well leave the UK
Post by: Chez San on September 07, 2014, 05:58 am
The results of a poll released this morning show the pro-independence camp ahead by 1%. It's a single poll commissioned by the Sunday Times, with a 2% margin of error and a statistical outlier, but news enough to, if today's front pages are anything to go by, terrify the living shit out of the rest of Britain.

(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw4IJkgIMAAwj0w.jpg)

More here: http://wingsoverscotland.com/all-over-the-place/

In fact, the reaction from my English friends (I don't have any Welsh friends) has been one of complete shock, almost as if the last three years of debating and campaigning and the gradual political rousing of the entire country had gone completely unreported by the media.

Has there been much of this reported outside of the UK? I know it's a pretty big deal in Spain but aside from a couple of podcasts stateside I've seen little evidence of this thing having been covered properly by the mainstream media.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: HyperGlavin on September 07, 2014, 06:36 am
In Australia, the story has received the usual attention given to foreign news that we can't somehow claim as our own special agenda. The national public broadcaster might give it a few minutes of cursory analysis every now and then, and the commercial outlets pretty much ignore it in favour of something more bloody or celebrity-focused. But that all goes out the window the moment Tony "I'm your dad as long as you're living under my roof" Abbott says some inane garbage about the whole thing and everyone loses their minds for a day or two.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: HyperGlavin on September 07, 2014, 06:51 am
Oh btw I hope you guys get freedom or whatever, like in Braveheart, yeah?


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 07, 2014, 07:09 am
It's really the only way we could finally get Gale and Tim strip-searched.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Johnny Roastbeef on September 07, 2014, 07:33 am
Can you maybe help us figure out how to convince our deadweight that they want independence?


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 07, 2014, 07:51 am
Well, if you're going to go the same way we've gone, you'll need to start with a spectacularly inept Unionist campaign that manages to alienate everyone who isn't a 50+ upper-middle-class white homeowning racist.

Then you'll need an entrenched right-wing media to angrily insult and demean them in the same way Fox News does to black people:

http://wingsoverscotland.com/kicking-the-dog-until-it-bites/

And having the BNP, the Orange Order, UKIP and the rest of the xenophobic far-right all put aside their differences to demand they stay in the union will help enormously.

And having this fellow on the opposition always helps:

(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii283/pwotsanchez/pierscunt.png) (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/pwotsanchez/media/pierscunt.png.html)

So essentially you're going to have to do it backwards


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: RummyLu on September 07, 2014, 07:55 am
It's really the only way we could finally get Gale and Tim strip-searched.

Oh come on, you know we just need to say the word, for Gale anyway.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 07, 2014, 08:04 am
Well, first you'll need to start with a spectacularly inept Unionist campaign that manages to alienate everyone who isn't a 50+ upper-middle-class white homeowning racist

As you say, the Better Together campaign has done its damnedest to push people towards a "yes" vote although even they are trying to distance themselves from Nigel Farage's proposed UKIP pro-union rally on the 12th.
My theory is that he wants the "yes" vote to win so he can sweep to power in an ever more right wing England and then take Scotland back by force, a la Putin.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 07, 2014, 08:13 am
What are the possibilities after a No vote? Ed Miliband as PM or a Tory/UKIP coalition? All of whom have pretty much burned their bridges in Scotland. We'd be actively electing leaders who have all treated us with open contempt and threatened to starve us out.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: RummyLu on September 07, 2014, 08:16 am
Farage might have dreams but he'll never be a Putin.

Putin:
(http://i.imgur.com/HSRKMTg.jpg)

Farage:
(http://i.imgur.com/byI7krS.jpg)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 07, 2014, 08:20 am
He's not the dictator we deserve, he's the one we'll get.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Lukeington on September 07, 2014, 08:24 am
We almost lost Quebec about twenty years ago to a referendum on sovereignty that gained a lot of steam about a week and a half before the actual vote, where it lost on the slimmest of margins. The Canadian government got super involved when they saw how close it could be. It's really interesting comparing the two, and following this with Scotland, though I don't really have an opinion or stake in it. I guess I have a scottish last name.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: RummyLu on September 07, 2014, 08:25 am
Mongolord is Scottish?


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 07, 2014, 08:33 am
Whatever the result, I don't think this genie is going back in the bottle any time soon. There were queues of middle-aged people waiting in line to register to vote last week, 50-year-olds who had never voted for anything before. Something had finally set a fire under their arses. There's talk of an 80% turnout.

We're going to have a far more engaged and enlightened electorate from here on, which can only be good for everybody.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 07, 2014, 08:40 am
That said, it's possible they were motivated by this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLAewTVmkAU


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Mr Gale on September 07, 2014, 10:36 am
While I still dont think its probable, I would like independence so I can have a dual citizenship to an EU country (if they get membership anyway) in case we ever leave in some fit of pandering right wing nonsense one day.

The downsides like how its a bad idea to be having a vote of independence without any sort of forcing of a plan or mandate from the independence side, the gross economic dangers for Scotland, the no doubt skyrocketing of shortbread prices well... I dont care about any of that. Fuck Scotland.

I do care it will just be another left wing region of the UK leaving to bolster tory potential of future majority governments for the rest of us (till that promised UKIP split kicks in one day, hopefully).

I do however propose we change the name of the country if they leave to "England and friends".


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 07, 2014, 10:47 am

Looks who's popped up at the last minute to state the bleeding obvious

(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii283/pwotsanchez/murdoch.png) (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/pwotsanchez/media/murdoch.png.html)

It's amusing to see him accuse the BBC of bias, less amusing that he's right.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 07, 2014, 11:05 am
While I still dont think its probable, I would like independence so I can have a dual citizenship to an EU country (if they get membership anyway)
We're all EU citizens right now, it'll be kind of awkward for the EU to kick us all out then ask us to reapply. We'll see, I suppose.
Quote
in case we ever leave in some fit of pandering right wing nonsense one day.
My money's on 2017
Quote
The downsides like how its a bad idea to be having a vote of independence without any sort of forcing of a plan or mandate from the independence side,
We'll have 18 months to sort that out, starting from whenever the dust settles from whatever's left of ScotLab leaping onto the SNP raft
Quote
the gross economic dangers for Scotland,
Largely debunked, I'm sure we'll be fine
Quote
the no doubt skyrocketing of shortbread prices well... I dont care about any of that. Fuck Scotland.
I do care it will just be another left wing region of the UK leaving to bolster tory potential of future majority governments for the rest of us (till that promised UKIP split kicks in one day, hopefully).
Historically, removing the Scottish vote would have made very little difference to all the UK governments since 1945. Where Labour won they would have won anyway.
Quote
I do however propose we change the name of the country if they leave to "England and friends".
England and chums


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Mr Gale on September 07, 2014, 11:14 am
18 months to sort out "what you voted for exactly" is my problem, failing to provide some sort of definitive mandate is dodgy as hell. Largely debunked economic dangers is not a statement that can be true as obviously we are dealing with a lot of predictive elements when we still dont know what the plans for independence are economically or what the split of debt/resources would be, its a long term problem, I hope England would be savvy enough to realise while a lot of concessions economically to a new independent Scotland wont exactly be "fair" but will be in our long term interest not to have a bankrupt state by us ... ditto for doing what we can to get you into EU.

We dont really know if you can readily rejoin the EU as a straight transfer and under what conditions if so (like taking the Euro). I guess you could apply for some sort of exception for the Euro and be shoehorned in, it would seem logical but I assume states like Spain would fight the hell out of it for obvious reasons.

I would also like Scotland to take the Euro if it went independent, not for any economic reasons, it will just be so much easier to get rid of than Scottish notes.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Mr Gale on September 07, 2014, 11:15 am
Also we should immediately make The Doctor switch to an English accent if it passes.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Lukeington on September 07, 2014, 12:46 pm
Here's a mini-doc from CBC about the hypothetical day after a successful separation referendum in Quebec, and how clueless everyone was with regards to what would happen. I imagine it's much of the same in the U.K.

Embed doesn't seem to want to work for me. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHKhoe0EBNQ)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 07, 2014, 12:49 pm
Osborne et al violated the purdah today by making new deals after the vote has started (they called off the third debate for precisely that reason, reckoning the purdah began with the postal vote). The BBC happily assisted them in violating the purdah.

Not illegal, but perhaps a big red flag that the UK government basically doesn't give a shit about the rules.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 07, 2014, 12:57 pm
Here's a mini-doc from CBC about the hypothetical day after a successful separation referendum in Quebec, and how clueless everyone was with regards to what would happen. I imagine it's much of the same in the U.K.

Pretty much, there's so much smoke and disinformation being blown around from all sides that it's clear that nobody's got a clue. It's all very exciting, it'll be like starting a new Dwarf Fortress.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Wibblewobble on September 07, 2014, 02:59 pm
Living in London is like living in a separate city state, and we're pretty much uninvolved in everything that goes on in the rest of the Cursed Earth (or 'the UK' as I believe it's also known).

Are you going to be a Republic? President Salmond?


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: fermun on September 07, 2014, 03:26 pm
Pretty much, there's so much smoke and disinformation being blown around from all sides that it's clear that nobody's got a clue. It's all very exciting, it'll be like starting a new Dwarf Fortress.
I recommend bringing an anvil, I know you don't need one because you can usually trade the first fall, but I find it a whole lot easier to trade for more seeds and stuff and just take the anvil to start with.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 07, 2014, 03:51 pm
Living in London is like living in a separate city state, and we're pretty much uninvolved in everything that goes on in the rest of the Cursed Earth (or 'the UK' as I believe it's also known).

Are you going to be a Republic? President Salmond?

Nope, we're keeping the Queen. Fuck knows why.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 07, 2014, 07:37 pm
Well, it's because we know where our meta-allegiances lie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojUa332pcoY


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Lukeington on September 07, 2014, 07:42 pm
Are you going to be a Republic? President Salmond?

Nope, we're keeping the Queen. Fuck knows why.

constitutional monarchies wuddup


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: fermun on September 07, 2014, 08:33 pm
If Scotland goes independent, don't form an alliance with France, as that didn't work out well last time.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 07, 2014, 09:26 pm
Your father was a dieu et mon droit and your mother smells of honi soit qui mal y pense.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Lukeington on September 07, 2014, 09:43 pm
I hope your Scottish is better than your French.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 08, 2014, 02:26 am
Are you going to be a Republic? President Salmond?

Nope, we're keeping the Queen. Fuck knows why.

constitutional monarchies wuddup

I suppose an independent Scotland will be heavily based on the way Denmark does stuff so already having a toothless monarch is one item off the list


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Lukeington on September 08, 2014, 06:06 am
Denmark has proportional representation as well, which would probably be quite suitable for a region the size of Scotland. Is there much buzz about democratic reform too or is it largely just a separtist conversation?


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 08, 2014, 12:11 pm
I hope your Scottish is better than your French.

Naw man, ah'm aye spraffin' pish.

And the context of the two phrases is that they both appear on the royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom (adopted 1837):
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Royal_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/620px-Royal_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png)

Dieu et mon droit was apparently used as far back as the 12th century by Richard I (he of the Lionheart). Couldn't find much about "honi soit..." in terms of how old it is. Anyway the post was a silly, throwaway joke that doesn't withstand scrutiny.

On a more topical note, I think Chez San's point about it being good that people are becoming more politically engaged is right. Also, the top story on the BBC website today is about the next royal baby, so there's that too. Guess they don't want to have to re-brand as the E(&W&N.I.)BC.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 08, 2014, 12:45 pm
Denmark has proportional representation as well, which would probably be quite suitable for a region the size of Scotland. Is there much buzz about democratic reform too or is it largely just a separtist conversation?

Democratic reform is the whole reason we're doing this, it's got nothing to do with nationalism, ethnicity, anti-English sentiment or what have you -  we've been controlled by so many unelected governments over the years that it can be argued that Scotland is not a democracy at all. The Conservatives are essentially a fringe party here with as much influence as the Monster Raving Loonies yet they still get to lob insane anti-poor taxes at us which we have to mop up with whatever spare change we can find down the sofa.

Are we a country or a province? Should we really be handing over our entire GDP to Westminster in exchange for pocket money? Do we trust the London establishment to have our best interests in mind and act accordingly? That's what people are asking themselves at this point in time.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 08, 2014, 12:47 pm
Also our national animal is the unicorn and we can put it on our flags, which will be awesome


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: fermun on September 08, 2014, 12:55 pm
What will the UK do about their flag?


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Lukeington on September 08, 2014, 01:14 pm
There are a bunch of fucking wacky possibilities, apparently. (http://m.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/will-this-be-the-uks-new-flag/284234/)

A lot of commonwealth countries incorporate the british flag into theirs, which makes it even more difficult.

I dunno.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: fermun on September 08, 2014, 01:46 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/VhH4Ioz.png)
I like this one best. Go with that one, UK, should Scotland dump you.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 08, 2014, 01:50 pm
That one's a bit NSDAP


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: fermun on September 08, 2014, 02:05 pm
Then it sounds like it would be a good fit with the post-Scotland-independence UKIP England.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 08, 2014, 02:24 pm
Scottish Labour on TV. The BBC just devoted 50 minutes of prime airtime to allow a political party to continue campaigning after the vote has begun. This is in breach of all rules and agreements and maybe the law but it appears there's nobody who can do anything about it.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Wibblewobble on September 08, 2014, 02:37 pm
The poll showing a bare Yes you mentioned yesterday has brought all the politicians out of the woodwork, promising 'jam tomorrow' if Scotland votes no.

Of course, all promises will be forgotten if the vote goes their way.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: fermun on September 08, 2014, 02:46 pm
I see that a YouGov poll has Yes at 3 point lead, here's some cross tabs.

(http://i.imgur.com/9tN6j5gl.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/xtBqRLol.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/rciCxsQl.png)

I didn't realize 16+ can vote on this, I had assumed you guys were 18+ as well, that said the cross-tabs would lead me to think that there's going to be a slight No victory unless there's a strong Yes push among the current "don't know" and "no intention to vote" crowd, as younger voters, men, and lower social grade voters tend to have lower turnout. If Yes wins, it's only going to be by there being a large turnout.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: RummyLu on September 08, 2014, 03:26 pm
I wonder if Australia gets a flag change now too.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 08, 2014, 04:03 pm
The Orange March and Nigel Farage's planned visit will probably disgust enough people over to the Yes side to tip the balance.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 08, 2014, 04:09 pm
YouGov's polls have, of all the pollsters, until now always returned the largest No margins. I wonder if they changed their methodology or something.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 08, 2014, 04:18 pm
The poll showing a bare Yes you mentioned yesterday has brought all the politicians out of the woodwork, promising 'jam tomorrow' if Scotland votes no.

Of course, all promises will be forgotten if the vote goes their way.

Why the feck are they using Gordon Brown, the man who sold off the British gold reserves for next to nothing? He was in power for three years, he had plenty of time to devolve power to Scotland if he'd had the slightest bit of interest in doing so. Anyway, everyone down south hates him and will nix his proposals even if they amounted to anything which they basically don't

Edit: here's a bloke who's almost as interested in polls as Fermun: http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: fermun on September 08, 2014, 05:43 pm
YouGov's polls have, of all the pollsters, until now always returned the largest No margins. I wonder if they changed their methodology or something.

YouGov polls only get people who pay attention to politics, own a computer, and use it over a certain number of hours a week, which skews them towards No based on sampling, they then try to fix that with a weighting procedure, which they seem to have only begun implementing a few weeks back.

The YouGov sample tends to be richer than average, more likely to have been born outside of Scotland than average, and has very few people under 30. As of a few weeks ago they implemented a weighting formula to weight their polling sample to be more like what the expected average voter is.

If they do the weighting properly, their survey methodology more effectively shows changing opinions in response to happenings, but can cause errors due to their survey sample progressively becoming more politically conscious. They did get close in the US 2012 presidential election, but this sort of survey methodology is new and has more possibilities for errors as well as more information about what is happening if they do it right.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 08, 2014, 05:48 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/VhH4Ioz.png)
I like this one best. Go with that one, UK, should Scotland dump you.

Which would at least hopefully put a halt to the old racist chant of "There ain't no black in the Union Jack".

Living in London is like living in a separate city state, and we're pretty much uninvolved in everything that goes on in the rest of the Cursed Earth (or 'the UK' as I believe it's also known).

And this thought is something that pushed me towards "yes" a while back (sorry Wib, I don't mean your comment). On a very basic level, London is disproportionately what is meant when people think of TUKOGBANI. Culturally, and very much financially.

This site (http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/HTMLDocs/dvc134_a/index.html) gives London's population as 7,322,403 in 2001. If Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London) is to be believed, the "metro" population as of 2014 is 15,010,295.
Scotland's total population was recorded in 2001 (http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/HTMLDocs/dvc134_a/index.html) as 5,064,200, and wikipedia's entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland) for 2013 puts it at 5,327,700.

Now, admittedly, Scotland has always seemed to punch above its weight politically but even so it's hard to look at those figures and not figure that when you get to the bottom line, its interests will be sidelined if need be (and of course that's a continuum of interests, it's certainly not as simple as one versus the other, just ask the border region). The counter argument is certainly that as part of the union it draws benefits and clout that it wouldn't have had otherwise.

Any which way, facebook friends that have heretofore been absolutely fine are starting to make shots across the bows at each other over this debate.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: fermun on September 09, 2014, 01:09 pm
David Cameron has announced he will be going to Scotland tomorrow to convince them not to leave the UK.

He might be overestimating how charismatic he is.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 09, 2014, 01:18 pm
They're flying the Saltire over Number 10. Sort of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XyEzZ57wdE


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: jimbob on September 09, 2014, 05:39 pm
I voted no weeks ago, tell the politicians they can go back to work.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 11, 2014, 12:25 pm
So we can expect a staged terrorist attack by Tuesday then

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/09/10/london-devious-plans-for-scotland-independence-referendum.html


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: jimbob on September 11, 2014, 01:15 pm
haha


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 11, 2014, 04:41 pm
The BBC totally exposed now as state media propagandists.

Nick Robinson asks Alex Salmond a difficult question and gets a straight answer, plus a new story about the Scottish Government requesting an investigation into a Treasury leak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmLb-RIbrM

and this is his report for the news:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enrdDaf3uss

I expect this sort of thing from Fox News, but I'm really shocked and depressed by the BBC doing it. I've cancelled my TV licence, fuck em.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: fermun on September 11, 2014, 06:13 pm
http://www.tatler.com/news/articles/september-2014/the-future-of-scotland


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 12, 2014, 12:02 pm
Won't somebody please think of the landed gentry?

This is neither here nor there but not long ago I realised that "country gent" could be a spoonerism.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 13, 2014, 04:50 am
Today in Edinburgh we have supposedly the biggest Orange Walk ever & Hibs playing at home. Everything will be fine.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 13, 2014, 07:48 am
Couple pictures from my facebook feed:

Edinburgh Orange Walk
(http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/Edinburgher/nawj_zpsa5164e2c.jpg)

Glaswegian Yes rally
(http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/Edinburgher/glasgowj_zps8b12c18b.jpg)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Lukeington on September 13, 2014, 08:23 am
The second one looks more fun, I vote yes.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: raknade on September 13, 2014, 12:08 pm
This is neither here nor there but not long ago I realised that "country gent" could be a spoonerism.

Gountry cent?


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 14, 2014, 04:59 am
The Telegraph says Fuck You to Canada and Australia

(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii283/pwotsanchez/10414898_10203955038969081_2344303779339413444_n.jpg) (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/pwotsanchez/media/10414898_10203955038969081_2344303779339413444_n.jpg.html)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: jimbob on September 14, 2014, 10:14 am
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203431394040415 (https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203431394040415)

aww


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 14, 2014, 12:21 pm
His polling card got smoked days ago


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: BSam on September 14, 2014, 02:13 pm
Is that a new Limmy's Show character?


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 15, 2014, 06:37 pm
Out of the usual pub quiz team, three tonight were/are pro-union. Fine, but if you bemoan the inescapable debate and claim you wish it were just over, don't inexorably steer the conversation back to it every five minutes on the flimsiest of pretexts when everyone is out for a bit of fun and escapism.
Chez San, you a Leither? May need to bolster the ranks if things get too bolshie after Thursday.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 16, 2014, 01:37 pm
I was never a Leither but I did live there for a bit. Which pub are you quizzing in? There are a couple that I'm not allowed in


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Wibblewobble on September 16, 2014, 02:55 pm
Which pub are you quizzing in?

The Eviscerated Sassenach.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 16, 2014, 05:05 pm
Obviously, Wib. Otherwise the Brass Monkey, you're unlikely to get knifed but one of our team got "accidentally" shoulder-checked on his way back from picking up our winnings by the resident barfly because we'd won the quiz and the bonus money round two weeks in a row.

In other musings, I've just realised that I really need to send in my passport renewal so that I can have (potentially) one of the last TUKOGBANI ones.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Karlski on September 16, 2014, 05:37 pm
There's been a bunch of extremely stupid speculation in the opinion and letters page of the West Australian about oh no what will happen to the flag

if Scotland leaves

what will happen

we'll have to change the flag because the union jack won't be useable any more because there won't be a united kingdom omg

so basically what I'm saying is REPUBLIC NOW F THE QUEEN (not literally that would be weird)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Matt on September 16, 2014, 06:00 pm
This is what should happen.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/36/Australian_Flag_with_Aboriginal_Flag.svg)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: HyperGlavin on September 16, 2014, 11:28 pm
The kiwis are already in the process of changing their flag to differentiate it from ours, so I reckon we wait until they're done and then switch ours to something similar.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: RummyLu on September 17, 2014, 02:41 am
This is what should happen.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/36/Australian_Flag_with_Aboriginal_Flag.svg)

We are really really really under the wrong government for that to happen.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 18, 2014, 04:50 am
Going in now. Wish me luck.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: nameinuse2 on September 18, 2014, 05:44 am
Go Scotland!


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: fermun on September 18, 2014, 10:55 am
In 14 hours or so we ought to know. Polls have it looking very close, and we'll see soon. Looking like remarkably high turnout so far.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Mr Gale on September 18, 2014, 11:39 am
Dont split on us, bro.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Wibblewobble on September 18, 2014, 02:56 pm
My guess is that a high turn out will mean "Hoots mon, nooo!" wins the day.

But if it turns out "Yes", give us your banks and we'll let you keep sporrans and The Proclaimers. A fair deal, I'd say.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Mr Gale on September 18, 2014, 03:18 pm
I just found out in a meeting today if they vote yes my company is pulling all its offices from Scotland and the staff will be moved down to us, which means I will lose my fancy office probably and have to sit in the "open floor" seating like a junior manager animal.

This vote just got REAL.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: fermun on September 18, 2014, 04:03 pm
Polls are closed so whoever won has done it, now just gotta wait for people to finish counting them up.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Wibblewobble on September 18, 2014, 05:39 pm
That's easy for you to say, but Mr Gale may have to work in an open-plan office.

HAVE YOU NO HEART?!?


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Lukeington on September 18, 2014, 05:55 pm
I read on twitter that some polls closed early because they had 100% turnout. Wow.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Remington Lonespear on September 18, 2014, 09:18 pm
  wow.

                              such turnout

many vote

              great independence

     100 per cent


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: 88FingersLouie on September 18, 2014, 10:07 pm
Are you having a stroke?


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Remington Lonespear on September 18, 2014, 11:10 pm
I just came if that's what you mean


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Joey on September 19, 2014, 12:03 am
y'all have tried the civil way, now's the time for action.

start by dumping all your tea into the atlantic ocean


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Mr Gale on September 19, 2014, 12:43 am
I thank the Scottish people for fighting for my freedom to have my own fancy office, this result means a lot to me.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 19, 2014, 02:23 am
Ha ha ha we just voted Tory for ever, we are so fuuuuuuuuuuuucked


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 19, 2014, 02:24 am
Like literally we just voted by a majority to essentially be slaves


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 19, 2014, 02:24 am
Armed revolt is the only option left


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: fermun on September 19, 2014, 02:35 am
Sanchez! For shame, you did not vote to be Tory forever, you only voted a strong mandate for current Tory policies.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: fermun on September 19, 2014, 02:36 am
Eventually there will be a NEW New Labour to be in favor of what Tories are now, and Tories will be something even crazier.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Mr Gale on September 19, 2014, 04:52 am
Pretty good vote anyway, right answer, lots of engagement and hopefully the lesson is a step towards more regionalism concerns and voting system reforms.

Happy with that, especially specifically enslaving Sanchez to our imperial English wiles.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: BSam on September 19, 2014, 06:46 am
y'all have tried the civil way, now's the time for action.

start by dumping all your tea into the atlantic ocean

You'll have dumped your tea.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Citizen Snips on September 19, 2014, 07:44 am
At least now the UK can continue to assist the United States in killing brown in the Middle East, according to Fox News.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Lukeington on September 19, 2014, 08:10 am
Well it's probably easier this way I guess


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: DiegoInglewood on September 19, 2014, 11:27 am
Alex Salmond resigns (http://news.sky.com/story/1338759/alex-salmond-quits-after-scotland-votes-no)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 19, 2014, 11:54 am
(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii283/pwotsanchez/10697235_10152669073686253_5253288748626079944_o.jpg) (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/pwotsanchez/media/10697235_10152669073686253_5253288748626079944_o.jpg.html)

Retired English grannies: the dog in our manger, the cancer in our marrow, the blue-rinse cuckoo in our nest


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 19, 2014, 11:56 am
PS fuck you Jimbob


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Lukeington on September 19, 2014, 12:17 pm
When Quebec's independance vote lost in 1995, the premier at the time blamed "money and the ethnic vote," so good on Salmond for not doing that


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 19, 2014, 12:48 pm
Alex Salmond resigns (http://news.sky.com/story/1338759/alex-salmond-quits-after-scotland-votes-no)

I gained a lot of respect for Salmond over the past year, it must be said.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 19, 2014, 12:49 pm
Oh, and avoid George Square right now if you're not white.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 19, 2014, 12:58 pm
I don't know how many non-white Glaswegians read Dragon Mountain, it must be dozens


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 19, 2014, 01:38 pm
Livestream of the No victory bash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86lrybeUXIg


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: jimbob on September 19, 2014, 01:49 pm
PS fuck you Jimbob

If I had lived all my life in Scotland I would have voted Yes like a shot, purely to get a socialist government. But I'm British, I care about people in England and Wales too.

I was hoping Salmond was going to stay on to make sure that Westminster delivered on their campaign promises. Now i'm fairly worried about the West Lothian shit, I just donated to the Labour party for the first time ever.

PS. my vote was fraudulent, i live in London at the moment :P


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 19, 2014, 01:59 pm

PS fuck you Jimbob
Quote
I just donated to the Labour party for the first time ever.

fuck you Jimbob


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 20, 2014, 04:25 am
I was speaking to a No voter at work yesterday, his rationale was that it's too early for independence and that it will come eventually.

When I explained to him that there was no provision for another referendum and that Westminster were highly unlikely to permit one for at least the next 25 years (by which time there will be nothing left of the social infrastructure) he went chalk-white with horror.

Nice job doing your research you fucking dolts.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 20, 2014, 09:01 am
Irvine Welsh is looking for the silver lining. (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/20/irvine-welsh-scottish-independence-glorious-failure)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 20, 2014, 10:27 am
Spent most of today playing whack-a-mole with conspiracy theorists

(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii283/pwotsanchez/conspiracy.png) (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/pwotsanchez/media/conspiracy.png.html)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 21, 2014, 01:41 pm
Alex Salmond talking to Sky news with some post-match analysis. (http://news.sky.com/story/1339600/salmond-no-voters-tricked-by-westminster)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 21, 2014, 04:30 pm
Maybe suggesting that 2 million people are gullible idiots isn't a great way to get them onside.

But what about the ones who weren't tricked? Who made a weighted and informed decision based on selfishness and evil?


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 21, 2014, 06:35 pm
Back in the days of Sparta, they needed five (one had to take the photo)

(http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/Edinburgher/ephors_zps7914f803.jpg)

By the time of William Wallace, one was enough (at this juncture, the Leper's son was known as Robert the Photorealistic Portraitist, photography having become a lost art temporarily)

(http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu73/Edinburgher/LeperKingBraveheart_zpsd737fb5c.jpg)

By god, what do we have now, a leprous brain attached to a supercomputer?

Though in answer to your first comment, I guess time will tell whether punters end up feeling that Salmond kicked over a wasp's nest that should have been left well alone or that he was justified in whipping off the lace doily that had been tastefully draped over the elephant in the room.

And seeing as I invoked some Braveheart shite, it's only fair to link Stewart Lee's amazing bit on Mel Gibson's historical shenanigans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHA1ufmLZQY


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 22, 2014, 02:30 am
Funny that this whole stramash started with Salmond asking for home rule and Cameron refusing to put it on the ballot, forcing an independence referendum or nothing.

Three years later Cameron came up in person to beg Scotland to accept that same home rule as a consolation prize.

Who is the real winner?


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Mr Gale on September 22, 2014, 04:18 am
Big Democracy?


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 22, 2014, 11:50 am
No, the real winner is that vile yuppie arsewipe who bet 600,000 on a No win


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 22, 2014, 06:55 pm
This is anecdotal so may not belong here, but it is a report from the ground-level so may be of interest.

When it was down to four of us after the pub quiz, it was 2 yes voters and 2 no. The two yes: me (half American half Scottish, expat, to boarding, then living in Scotland from age 10), the Siberian (though he grew up in Stornoway from age 12). The two no: North Yorkshire (doing her Phd thesis on A.L. Kennedy, Scottish writer and "yes" voter) and French (but grew up in anglophone Canada and having completed her thesis in scientific methodology/accountability/something).

Once again French/Canadian (but not French-Canadian) started up with how sick she was of the debate, and yet continued to draw conversation back to it every fucking 5 minutes. North Yorkshire, even having voted the same way, quietly excused herself not too long after the quiz ended.

After leaving the pub, France had a quick chunder outside, Siberia left and I saw France to her door safely. I then texted Yorkshire to comment on how France wouldn't stop harping on about a subject she'd declared herself sick of. Yorkshire responded saying she felt it was best to leave rather than to shout (her words, verbatim) "will you please just SHUT THE FUCK UP". I said it would have been fine in a Leith pub.

So, really, in the grander scheme of things it doesn't necessarily mean anything, but now those outside of the situation can see that even a previously mostly harmonious pub quiz team has some deep divisions now due to the debate. Are we better together, yes or no?

Thus ends the socio-political vignette.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 23, 2014, 02:03 am
The answer of course is fucking no

(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii283/pwotsanchez/image1.jpg) (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/pwotsanchez/media/image1.jpg.html)

ha ha ha ha ha we're all fuuuuuucked

(the extra 1600 is to offset the distribution costs over large rural areas and still falls way short of what we contribute via tax receipts)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: jimbob on September 23, 2014, 02:34 am
Every time i see a picture of Cameron giving a speech in the papers these days i seem to have to get my pen out.

(http://i.imgur.com/yO4AFE6.jpg)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Wibblewobble on September 23, 2014, 03:27 pm
Me too!

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a122/wibster/Cameroonie_zps0e179e0a.jpg)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Remington Lonespear on September 24, 2014, 02:54 am
It's not often you get a chance to break out the pen with the Scotland tip.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: jimbob on September 25, 2014, 02:24 am
Hey Scotland, looks like you're going to war in the Middle East again.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Ishliquor on September 25, 2014, 06:30 am
Having an overabundance of democracy at home, it makes sense to export.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Chez San on September 25, 2014, 12:28 pm
2020 motherfucker


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 10 days
Post by: Wibblewobble on September 25, 2014, 02:56 pm
Fast forward to 2020

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a122/wibster/ScotPres2020_zps1cbef2d9.jpg)


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK in 6 years
Post by: Chez San on March 12, 2016, 03:46 pm
Here we go again yay

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35788489



Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK
Post by: Chez San on June 24, 2016, 01:44 am
2 years max


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK
Post by: Wibblewobble on June 24, 2016, 11:40 am
OK, this time, Scotland leaves the UK, then London declares independence from the rest of the UK and merges with Scotland, we all rejoin the EU, and leave the rest Britain to breed pitbulls or whatever it is they do when not reading the Daily Mail.




Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK
Post by: Mr Gale on June 25, 2016, 09:34 am
Well given a fair few of the northern cities voted in also, can you include us in your new merger.

Also can we have a King Of The North.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK
Post by: Chez San on June 25, 2016, 11:37 am
No kings in the People's Republic of the Northlands. Come on in, there's been plenty of lebensraum since the 1850s.

I wonder if we'll go for Song Of Ice And Fire North or First Law North.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK
Post by: Chez San on October 16, 2016, 10:43 am
Legalising weed should net a few more Yes votes, nice one

http://www.thenational.scot/news/motion-to-legalise-cannabis-for-medical-use-passes-despite-fierce-opposition.23618


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK
Post by: Chez San on March 13, 2017, 05:07 pm
Boink.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39255181


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK
Post by: CatAstrophe on March 13, 2017, 11:46 pm
You better do it this time. Some of us living in good areas of places with terrible national governments would kill for historical precedent to break away from our country.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK
Post by: Chez San on March 14, 2017, 12:54 pm
Theresa May to Scotland: breaking up an old and powerful political union with your largest trading partners is the worst thing you can possibly do and you'll all drown in Shit Hell for ever

Theresa May to the UK: breaking up an old and powerful political union with your largest trading partners is the best thing you can possibly do and will lead to a heavenly eternity in the bounteous land of fleshlight dildos


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK
Post by: Mr Gale on March 15, 2017, 04:06 pm
I guess if it actually happened and a misplaced Brexit vote swayed it this time, I could get a EU passport in 15 years when you get back in. If there is still a EU then.

Or Scotland.

Plus countdown to SNP heavily implying a vote for indie is a vote to stay in the EU, even more sketchy financial figures bout how this wont mean massive austerity esp now we know the oil that covered the last lot of sketchy figures isnt even really there anymore and worst of all... more cringey attempts by May to pretend to be a human being anyone could agree with on anything.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK
Post by: Mr Gale on March 15, 2017, 04:07 pm
I will just keep holding out for a northern socialist republic once coal somehow becomes very valuable again when it turns out it cures cancer. KING OF THE NORTH.


Title: Re: So Scotland may very well leave the UK
Post by: Chez San on March 15, 2017, 05:40 pm
I guess if it actually happened and a misplaced Brexit vote swayed it this time, I could get a EU passport in 15 years when you get back in. If there is still a EU then.

Or Scotland.

Plus countdown to SNP heavily implying a vote for indie is a vote to stay in the EU, even more sketchy financial figures bout how this wont mean massive austerity esp now we know the oil that covered the last lot of sketchy figures isnt even really there anymore and worst of all... more cringey attempts by May to pretend to be a human being anyone could agree with on anything.

We already meet all the EU member state requirements and the impending financial apocalypse is based on figuring us as a region of the UK. We've a comparable GDP per capita to France. It'll be fiiiiiiiiiiine.

I'm off to Thailand in a couple of years anyway but I'll be watching from the sidelines.